No....no Pele he actually doesn't...no offence but everyone knows the game of football has evolved far beyond Pele's time, back then defending was not a core skill, it wasn't a science either, good defenders were few and far between. He could pack in as many goals as he wanted because the opposition just wasn't good enough.
I'm not saying he's not one of the greatest footballers to play the game, because he is. But his era and Messi's era are vastly different. Messi can easily eclipse him and become the best player to EVER play the beautiful game without scoring half as many goals...
soccer has evolved a lot, i agree but saying that defending wasn't a core skill is just ridiculous. that's like saying modern day football is focused on defending much more. it really hasn't.
and you should go and watch matches from peles era, its the same football Barca is playing today. Barca don't play the "zonal marking" type game, they man mark and pressurize the opposition. they play possession passing football. they same concept before "rather make a short pass and keep the ball then make a long one up field and lose it."
There is no denying messi is a great player, but i honestly think in order to be considered one of the best players ever, messi needs to win a world cup. pele and maradona both done it.
Hah? I wasn't around back then, but I have seen tons of videos and it is oh so very obvious that defending has evolved compared to back in Pele's time. The game has never been as tactical as it is now, so while defending has always been a core skill, I don't think managers did enough to exploit it at its fullest back then. To me it looks like the defenders plain sucked, but I understand that defensively, it was a completely different game back then; a whole lot more simple. All respects due to Pele, but I honestly think he needs to stfu and give Messi the credit he deserves. I am a United fan, I hate Barcelona lol, but I believe Messi is probably the greatest player to touch this planet. Today, the Champions League is seen as a far greater tournament to the World Cup since it is much more entertaining, so I think Messi has been doing enough for his club at the biggest stage in the world to be considered the greatest. From what we know of Pele, he played his best years at Santos in the Brazilian league, not Europe, where it all really matters. That's why I would name Maradona above him since he dominated Europe. Think today Neymar could stay at Santos and ever be considered the best? Nah just not happening.
aahh cmon, defending is so different nowadays, everything is so organized. And why does everyone think that he should win the WC to become the greatest, its the team that wins it not messi himself its not an individual honour... Iyvon has great points...
The tackles they got away with back then are a big difference, but these days there is so much money involved and everything is controlled.
So many videos and analyses of strikers movement patterns etc it is difficult to score as many, since defenders position themselves so much better.
On the flip side, Maradonna had his ankle shattered in a horrendous tackle, which wouldn't happen to Messi these days. Though Pele didn't play in any of the big leagues so comparisons are hard.
I'd go for Messi though, since the game is so much more competitive these days.
Pele shows very little class by saying this kind of thing.Fact is, though we hear a lot about Pele, the World never really saw the best of him(he was a kid in Sweden, missed the next through injury, got kicked to bits in '66 and wasn't at his best, even though still great, by 1970. Most of his most amazing displays were for Santos and aren't on tape for us to judge. Thing is, though, it's for other people, and NOT Pele, t say how great he was/is/would have been compared to the Messi of today who, i agree to an extent, still has some to prove at international level where he just hasn't been, consistently, the same animal, not yet anyway.
Also, about the having to win a WC to be considered the very best? Seriously?That would mean players like George Best can never, because of their nationality, even ASPIRE to being considered truly great? Christ, I'd put Maradona AND Cruyff above Pele for their influence on the game itself and Johan barely missed out on WC glory twice after carrying Dutch hopes via being the embodiment of total football on the pitch but without the talent around bopth him and Diego they'd never have won what they did. Even in 1986, in what we're told was Maradona and ten others, are we required to call those other players average?Valdano, average? You see my point.
Anyway, I can accept that a WC winners medal might seem a natural thing to expect of a greatest ever player but, in reality, it has NOTHING to do with an individual's talent level, does it? Who's at fault if you;'re born to a tiny nation with no hope in internationals? One genius player,esp a striker, can never carry that to glory in the modern game.
Another thing, Pele is widely regarded as the best player ever and I don't buy it fully. not because I doubt his talent but because there's very little for me to see of it, very little barring anecdotal evidence and a scoring record from a time and a league where defence wasn't what it is today-'m not saying he wasn't great, he was, but HOW great compared to players like Cruyff, Messi or Maadona who play their entire carees in Europe at the higher level and under the constant mewdia spotlight? You can't compare and we shouldn't.
Wecan judh=ge Cryuff's impact more easily than the others as he was part of a movement in total Football which changed the way people looked at tactics and he went on to coach and be as good at that. To me that impact is as amazing, and the way he was,for me, the first truly modern day footballer in many respects makes me think his greatness is way under rated.but it's MY opinion as all this is opinion and were I in Pele's shoes I'd hope to have the character to stay silent and not make out other players need to do this, that or the other when I didn't even play at a time comparable to today. Better to just accept a whole tier of truly amazing, great players and leave it at that-no picking THE best player. How would a greatest ever defender or keeper compare either?
You can't compare the two and Pele should keep his class and do that by keeping his mouth shut. Pele played at a different time and never played in the tougher European leagues and we also never saw Pele in his prime at a WC either.There are many reasons to doubt even HIS pedigree(I don't but say you COULD by saying about things like this the evidence simply isn't there)but I don't see Messi doing that-are we to think he's got more class than someone widely accepted as the greatest footballer ever because of it?
The two played in different eras and on different stages and Prele should know and accept that-it should be enough for him to still be regarded as he is without having to make pointless remarks about another great player. We can all sit down and judge Lio when his career is over and for now there re things he MUST work on but, again, Pele need NOT have said this as it makes him look a bit cheap. I just hoe that isn't how it was meant-as a nasty Brazil/Argentina dig.
Despite what Pele did in the past, no one in the world excites with a ball at his feet more than Messi right now. In this modern era with so many top players the fact Messi stands head and shoulders above all other players is testament to his prowess.
It sounds like you think he does it all by himself? Remember he has a great team supporting him in Barca. Also you can see what happens when he doesn't have a team supporting him when he plays for Argentina.
You mean the support he provides to the team. I see him creating more opportunities for his team mates than them creating opportunities for him. There is a reason he has been recognized as the best current player in the world.
Agreed, Messi has a great team around him at Barca and there are still a few question marks at international level. My point I was trying to make was that he's the best in the world right now. Messi still has a way to go to catch Pele's incredible record.
No....no Pele he actually doesn't...no offence but everyone knows the game of football has evolved far beyond Pele's time, back then defending was not a core skill, it wasn't a science either, good defenders were few and far between. He could pack in as many goals as he wanted because the opposition just wasn't good enough.
I'm not saying he's not one of the greatest footballers to play the game, because he is. But his era and Messi's era are vastly different. Messi can easily eclipse him and become the best player to EVER play the beautiful game without scoring half as many goals...
Just my 2 cents.
Wow... Pele is a dick.
Despite what Pele did in the past, no one in the world excites with a ball at his feet more than Messi right now. In this modern era with so many top players the fact Messi stands head and shoulders above all other players is testament to his prowess.
win a world cup or 2 and maybe he can be the best ever. personally i think he's the best player i've seen.
Insanity at it's best.. it's official Pele has gone crazyyy!