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Why can't Destiny 2 run at 60fps on PS4 Pro?

Geobros|2523d ago |Article|136|

Bungie has confirmed that Destiny 2 will offer full PlayStation 4 Pro support, but some users have voiced concerns that the developer has chosen to target 4K display support instead of 60fps gameplay. The thinking is straightforward enough - ultra HD offers prettier visuals of course, but smoother gameplay offers lower latency and a higher level of precision response. This is exactly why franchise FPS titles like Battlefield and Halo transitioned across to 60 frames per second. So why not Destiny too?

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Rude-ro2523d ago

Because bungie built their game the way it is and the Xbox one and PS4 are this gens systems. Xbox one being the weakest link in the consoles, thus the engine is built to push it to its limits while providing their vision.
The PS4 pro and Sony will not create a divide with an advantage of double the frame rate against the much larger install base of this gen.

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Sonyslave32523d ago

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Gazondaily2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

That makes no sense. The reason why it's not 60fps on Pro is because the dev says that the Pro is not powerful enough. How are you blaming the Xbox One here lol?!

To be fair, I don't see why the Pro couldn't handle it being at 60fps (And 1080p). This hardly looks massively improved graphically over the last game which was a cross gen title.

So I reckon that this could run at 60fps on Pro and of course, Scorpio. I'm no tech expert here though so who knows: maybe their engine is too restrictive.

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Nitrowolf22523d ago

Its the game engine, so who knows about whether scorpio can or not with its current CPU. From the sound of it the gane FPS is mostly based on the CPU vs GPU for other titles.

It may not be the greatest looking gane, but its still pretty good looking graphically, and then you have all the stuff going on behind the scene. People have to remember this is a light MMO style game, where you transition in and out of lobbies constantly and it has a lot going on in its world.

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bluefox7552523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

According to this article, the Scorpio isn't powerful enough either. It reiterates what we've all been saying: The CPU is too weak.

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Guyfamily9992523d ago

I'll keep it simple: hardware isn't as simple as you think. A PC that can run a game at 4K 30fps won't necessarily run that game at 1080p 120 fps (even though both of those are pushing the same number of pixels per second). Both the Pro AND the Scorpio have MUCH more powerful GPUs than they do CPUs. This means that they are MUCH better designed to improve resolutions vs framerates. If you look at actual examples, such as Final Fantasy 15, it shows that while the Pro can push almost 3 times the pixel power at the same framerate as stock, if you keep the resolution the same the framerate only goes up by 50 percent.

This isn't Bungies Fault and doesn't have to do with the graphics of the game. It has to do with the physics, AI, and other CPU bound tasks that make a locked 60 impossible without a goof CPU.

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rainslacker2523d ago

The dev also stated that the graphics quality wasn't the issue, but rather, the physics engine used being CPU bound. They said they got it to 4K, because at 30fps, the PS4P had the extra power in the GPU to handle it, but the framerate was dependent on the physics engine, which holds back it back.

This is the principal that makes some games that get upgraded on newer hardware not be able to increase frame rate, because frame rate is sometimes tied to the game loop.

I can't see Bungie going to extra effort to try and make it run at 60fps on the Scorpio, because the CPU isn't significantly faster on the Scorpio in comparison to the PS4P. They made the decision to keep it at 30fps due to keeping it compatible with the older consoles, and the inability to achieve 60fps due to the physics engine. I'd imagine on some PC's, if not the more common configurations, that 60fps may not be readily achievable either.

One can assume that the graphics details can be bumped up rather easily on Scorpio though. Whether Bungie takes advantage of that is anyone's guess right now.

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TankCrossing2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

Though physics and AI are only CPU-bound tasks because Activision are too miserly to provide servers for Destiny 2. It's not even like Destiny supports offline play, so there is no excuse.

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Rude-ro2523d ago

Ok little one.
Something you fanatics are not use to because Microsoft throws their old consoles under the bus...
Why would a successful gaming company like Sony throw 50 million users under the bus?
We understand how bad the Xbox one was... but it is still this gens system. The game is made for this gen.
If Scorpio can do it, Great. No one cares. Separate their install base... they are use to getting treated as such...
But since the "pro" is being blamed for a game for this gen... well... you can see the idiotic idea in that.
The Xbox one struggles to run this gen games period. The weakest link is always the one holding everything back.
The pro will not do destiny 2 in 4k at 60fps... correct.
The Scorpio, if it chooses, will. Great.
But player base wise... stupid.
But I understand the new defense force is only backing the Scorpio so, I get it.
Sheep

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Gazondaily2523d ago

^^ Proof of why drinking bleach isn't good for you.

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AngelicIceDiamond2523d ago

The dev even backtracked in his own comment by saying (parapharasing) The Pro is really, really powerful but not powerful enogh for 60 frames. Live interviews always put devs on the spot.

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Sevir2523d ago

That's the thing you just admitted you're no tech expert... But the answers are very much in the article... There are 3 reasons listed...

1. The CPU is a bottle neck.. As the issues of frame rate is 100% always linked to cpu optimization... These are 2009-2010 laptop CPU cores that were over clocked in their mid-gen releases for both Scorpio and Pro. And metrics tested for both these machines indicate that the CPU would need to offer a 45-60% boost in performance over their original base clocks to support stable 60fps...

2. Logistics.... Multi-player games especially on Sony's PS4 can not have segmented and different fps because PS4 Pro and PS4 runs all multi-player games on a shared server. Sony has mandated that multi-player games remain 30 on Pro if the base ps4 runs at 30. It's about consistency...

MS has said developers are free to choose between 30/60 on Scorpio, but the reality is, Devs will not take a 30fps engine on a console multi-player and suddenly double it in a mid gen console refresh. The gameplay experience must be the same level consistency across the board. They will not segment Scorpio and XBO/s to different servers. It's too expensive and makes little sense, as there will not be some mass exodus of XBO owners dumping their box for a 4k XBO Scorpio... It didn't happen with the Pro. It's not happening here. These are not next generation refresh, bit simply consoles optimized for Higher resolution enhancements to the base forms.

3 - The Game Engine on consoles was built from the ground up around 30fps... That's what Destiny was built on and that's how Bungie tailored the game to run on consoles... So to answer your question... PS4 Pro runs at
30fps because PS4 base was built to run at 30fps, and scorpio will run at 30fps because the engine is tailored to have parity in game play experiences for XBO/S

The PC is a different beast, they uncapped the frame rate due built the engine around the fact that PC hasore modern CPUs that are significantly better than the Dated CPU cores of the PS4 and XBO family of consoles.

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Aenea2522d ago

CPUs in all the consoles can't handle the amount of calculations Destiny's engine is doing 60 times a second.

Even if there would've been a 100Tflop GPU in Pro/Scorpio with the same CPU their engine would not be able to hit 60fps.

They could've used the GPU for many of these calculations but would've needed to sacrifice the graphics and/or resolution, they decided not to.

Doesn't have anything to do with any particular console or another, none will be able to do this, yes, not even Scorpio. It uses the same type of CPU is a teensy bit faster but not fast enough to be able to do double the amount of calculations per second. Yes, it has optimisations, but those are for DirectX calls and other related things, not for these types of calculations, sure, they can perhaps squeeze out a few more per second but no amount of optimisations is gonna make sure it can do double.

Think about it, the game isn't doing way more DirectX related things than other games are, other games can run 60fps, this engine can not due to the other things the CPU needs to do, this means that DirectX calls isn't the biggest hoarder of CPU time in this engine........

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+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 2522d ago

DillyDilly2523d ago

The Pro & Scorpion are not next gen systems

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343_Guilty_Spark2523d ago

"The Pro is not a next gen system"

FTFY

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Bahamut2523d ago

Well, if you want to be really technical, there may not be "generations" anymore, just incremental improvements. Which is actually better, I mean, who wants to buy all the "Super HD 4K 120 FPS Remastered Editions" of all their PS4/Xbox games all over again? From here on out, every new console that releases should allow you to keep all your games from the previous console (keep the console framework the same, but just increase memory, graphics, CPU, and HDD size). The idea of "generations" is antiquated and counterproductive to the advancement of consoles.

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hulk_bash19872523d ago

@343
You realize that both Sony and Microsoft are pushing the Pro and Scorpio as mid-gen updates right? Theres a reason its not PS5 or whatever Microsoft chooses to name their console successor to the Xbox One.

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Aenea2522d ago

@343

You're really back to your old Xbox fanboy antics huh?

Anyways, neither are next gen systems, it's what MS says themselves...

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GUTZnPAPERCUTZ2523d ago

This is the Halo Engine... it has been running 60 since Xbox 360. Of course Destiny 2 looks noticeably better than Halo 5, they still should be able to hit 60 i would think?

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Overload2523d ago

Halo was never 60fps until Halo MCC and Halo 5.

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rainslacker2523d ago

The game engine may not have anything to do with the physics engine though. Nor do we know the extent of the physics in place. Even if it's the Halo engine, it doesn't mean that those older games had anywhere near the physics calculations that exist in Destiny. Can't say for sure without seeing D2 and analyzing it closer, but for now, I'll take what the developer said as a valid reason. They may be full of it, but I'm not going to accuse them of lying without any kind of frame of reference.

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freshslicepizza2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

Bungie built the game to be scalable, which is why the PC version does not have a frame rate locked. My guess is Bungie wants parity across all consoles like they did with the first game.

One reason why it won't be 60fps on the Pro is likely Sony's parity clause that mandates no competitive advantage over regular PS4 owners, Microsoft has already gone on record sayig they do not impose such parity clauses and leave it up to the developer.

If both PS4 Pro and Scorpio are identical and both offer native 4K then that will strike me as odd and further proof Sony is trying to leverage developers into creating parity among multiplat games as to not look inferior. Heck not even Sony's 1st party titles are native 4K for the most part, nor are most other AAA games but rather checkerboard.

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ziggurcat2523d ago

"If both PS4 Pro and Scorpio are identical and both offer native 4K then that will strike me as odd and further proof Sony is trying to leverage developers into creating parity among multiplat games as to not look inferior. "

no, it just means that the developer made the choice to keep the frame rate the same... because... you know... "Microsoft has already gone on record saying they do not impose such parity clauses and leave it up to the developer."

Sony's policy on MP frame rate between base/Pro owners doesn't go beyond their own consoles, and it's utterly insane to insinuate that they're going to "leverage developers into creating parity among multiplat games as to not look inferior."

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freshslicepizza2523d ago

@ziggurcat,
"no, it just means that the developer made the choice to keep the frame rate the same... because... you know..."

I said if both offer 4K, please learn to read what was said before commenting without your obvious attempt at taking what I said out of context and rearanging my comments out of order. The PS4 Pro rarely gets 4K native games, especially on demanding games like this, so it would be glaringly obvious if both end up being native 4K and how they managed that at a time when Microsoft is trying to promote native 4K games. Coincidence? I think not.

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butchertroll2523d ago

LOL, moldy! Again with your shitposting.

Not a single console manufacturer in any single way can't dictate the development of 3rd party game and force parity against more powerful console.

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ziggurcat2523d ago

@moldy:

"I said if both offer 4K..."

Actually 2/3 of your comment was about frame rate, and how Sony has a policy regarding MP frame rate between the base/Pro consoles while MS does not, which you then used to segue into an asinine conspiracy that somehow involves big, bad Sony imposing parity on devs so "as to not look inferior" compared to their competitor.

"The PS4 Pro rarely gets 4K native games..."

We don't know how many native 4K games will be on Scorpio.

"... so it would be glaringly obvious if both end up being native 4K and how they managed that at a time when Microsoft is trying to promote native 4K games."

If both end up being native 4K, it would only show that the Pro is capable to producing native 4K content, it would not implicate imposed resolution parity with their competitor.

"Coincidence? I think not."

A coincidence that both MS, and Sony are promoting these consoles as having the ability to producing native 4K games might actually produce native 4K games? Yeah... who would've thunk... what an amazing coincidence...

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Aenea2522d ago

"If both PS4 Pro and Scorpio are identical and both offer native 4K then that will strike me as odd and further proof Sony is trying to leverage developers into creating parity among multiplat games as to not look inferior. "

Wow, you're batshit crazy if you believe that!

The lengths these crazed Xbox fanboys go to for damage control is freaking hilarious!

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Vasto2523d ago

PS4 Pro is too weak.

Bungie has said this already.

It has nothing to do with Xbox One. /SMH

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Patriot4Life2523d ago

Wow...you people really hate MS.

I mean you hate MS with a passion.

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XStation4pio_Pro2523d ago

Just wrong. You obviously don't know how games are built. You always start out with high assets and whittle them down during optimizing. The frame rates are a result of how much you want to strip the graphics back. Devs ALWAYS have the option to crank the settings in the engine at any time. That's how PC games and some PS4 pro games can set performance levels.

The Xbox one S is only .4 tflops less than the base PS4. This is a pretty marginal power difference. Xbox Scorpio has 4 more TFLOPS than the base PS4, 2 more over the pro and an extra 4gb of ddr5 + a faster CPU than both of them, bungee is most definitely releasing this game Scorpio enhanced so you can't blame a marginal xb1s power difference on PS4 pro not running 60fps - especially considering the PC version will... and possibly Scorpio as well.

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butchertroll2523d ago

But Scorpio has a crappy CPU - JAGUAR

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Condemnedman2523d ago

I'll adjust that for you.... it's not powerful enough.

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Sm00thNinja2523d ago

Wow you have no idea what you're talking about

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jrshankill2523d ago

"Why does this game run poorly on my PS4 Pro?"

"Because XBOX ONE"

DEEEEEERRRP

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rainslacker2523d ago

To be fair, the stock PS4 is also a hinderence due to the physics engine in place being CPU bound instead of utilizing the GPU compute functions to be more efficient. Bungie decided to up the resolution instead of going for framerate, because the frame rate couldn't be sustained while the CPU was loaded with physics. I'm assuming the physics engine is rather robust, or poorly optimized, for the Jaguar CPU's that exist in the stock versions, and since the mid-gens processors aren't significantly better, it wouldn't be able to achieve 60fps anyhow. Bungie stated that the extra power was there for resolution though due to less load on the GPU, so they went with utilizing that power.

One can assume if they don't try to maintain graphics parity, that the Scorpio version may have better visual effects, which isn't a bad thing. But it's unlikely given the comparison of CPU's between stock, mid-gen, PS4P and Scorpio, that it'd be able to overcome the CPU bottleneck on the physics engine itself.

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AKS2523d ago

Rude-ro:

It's bizarre you're getting downvoted like this when the parity issues are Xbone and Scorpio and PS4 and Pro, not Pro and Scorpio. The base hardware would have a huge disadvantage online. PS4 and Pro players are playing together and against each other online. I expected the Pro version to get a settings boost but not 60 fps to keep framerate parity with the base PS4. Ditto for Xbone and Scorpio.

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RomanPSX2523d ago

Aenea2522d ago

Destiny's game engine uses the CPU for way more than most games, this means that NONE of the current consoles are able to hit 60fps, not even Scorpio.

They could've hit 60fps on ALL consoles if they had changed their engine to use the GPU for all the calculations the CPU is now doing. Doing so would've meant they had to give up resolution and/or visual quality. On PS4/X1 this would've meant they had to go below 1080p and would not be able to hit 4k on any of the mid-gen upgrades. They decided to opt for visuals and resolution instead.

This has nothing to do with Sony's marketing deal and also has nothing to do with one of the current consoles alone...

@the people below
MS never said "on record" to go 4k and 60fps, they said they want devs to decide what to use the power for, nothing more, nothing less, that 100s of articles and videos misinterpreted that to mean devs can do both is nonsensical since it's going to be impossible to lift a 1080p@30fps game on Xbox One to 2160p@60fps on Scorpio. Even if the CPU would be able to handle it, it needs a GPU that's 8 times more powerful than the one in the X1 and Scorpio is powerful, yes, but not 8 times more powerful than an X1...

Again, they would have to change their engine a lot to be able to hit 60fps on any console. Doing it just for the mid-gen upgrade consoles would be a waste of time and resources...

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yarbie10002523d ago

Destiny 2 was built for 30fps.....

But it runs 60+fps on pc

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Sonyslave32523d ago

lol I know right the pc ver is suppose to be uncapped meaning it be 120fps if you have a beast rig, so what about us pc gamer that play on our toaster oven that can only do 30fps where the parity.

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Brave_Losers_Unite2523d ago

People play 144 fps not 120. There are barely any 120hz monitors

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Rude-ro2523d ago

It runs unlocked.
The persons hardware will dictate the rest.

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Elda2523d ago

Personally I could care less I enjoyed playing Destiny 30fps on the og PS4 & I'll enjoy the sequel on the PS4 Pro in 30fps as well.

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Perjoss2523d ago

This.

It will be awesome in both 30 and 60

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rainslacker2523d ago

It's only an issue because people want to make it a console war thing. I doubt the vast majority of people playing D1 are sitting there going, "damn, I wish this were 60fps". The whole 30/60fps debate has only recently become a big thing for consoles, and for the most part, I'm dubious that most people going on about it like it's a deal breaker are really that adamant about it. If they were, they probably wouldn't be playing on consoles, because most games aren't more than 30fps. Devs choose this to improve graphics more often than not, and that is what the average consumer can actually discern much more readily than 60fps....particularly in marketing material.

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hulk_bash19872523d ago

Thank you, someone that understands that there was nothing wrong with the game at 30fps. A 60fps/1080p option would have been awesome, but its not a big deal.

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XiNatsuDragnel2523d ago

Because Sony doesn't want a Playstation owner to be left behind?

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Next_gen_20152523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

or its because Destiny devs have already stated the pro isnt powerful enough to do that...

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bluefox7552523d ago

And the Scorpio as well, by extension. Even the article says it won't be 60 on Scorpio because of the weak CPU.

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Next_gen_20152522d ago (Edited 2522d ago )

"Scorpio because of the weak CPU"

Yea so weak its running Battlefront 2 at 4k/60fps. Sony are pulling the strings here

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Aenea2522d ago (Edited 2522d ago )

"Yea so weak its running Battlefront 2 at 4k/60fps. Sony are pulling the strings here"

LOL, yeah, BF2 is also running at 60fps on the PS4 and PS4 Pro, what's your point?

Besides, we don't know yet what battlefront 2 will look like on Scorpio, after all on Xbox One it doesn't do 1080p so it might not manage to reach full 2160p on Scorpio....

To quote yourself "Thats just your opinion. Non of us really know what the scorpio is capable of tbh"...

Besides, if you think Sony is pulling strings with Destiny 2, I got bad news for ya, they also have a marketing deal for Battlefront 2 😜

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CrimsonPheonix2523d ago

lol Then what was the point of making the Pro

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bluefox7552523d ago

To run games at a higher resolution. Same deal for the Scorpio.

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corroios2523d ago

Stop blaming the consoles. Sorry but if Battlefield, COD and Titanfall run at 60 frames on the PS4 and Xbox One, then D2 should also run. Im not even gonna talk about the Pro running the game at 1080/60 frames.

The reality is that D2 is just a rip off DLC made like a new game from the partnership ACtivision/bungies using the same engine with zero evolution graphics wise from a game made in 2014 with PS3 and 360 in mind.

Are they kidding me 4 vs 4! in 2017 cant run at 60 frames on the PS4 or Xbox One?? If this was 30 vs 30....

I hope that Microsoft force them to made the game run at 60 frames on the scorpio, because Sony didnt. And they say good partnership... A game that graphics wise is not a top gun....

They just want to get the Money (69.99) from being a new game and get new gamers. Because this should be a 29.99 or 39.99 DLC. Nothing more.

Also they are trying to put gamers from sony and Microsoft against each other and we should be together against this kind of rip off.

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UnHoly_One2523d ago

I think you need to watch the gameplay videos of 2 again if you think the graphics aren't improved. That or get your eyes checked.

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corroios2523d ago

Not talking about the cinematics. But gameplay i dont see any great changes. In the PVP it seems the same.

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MrCrabPuss2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

HAHAHA, Give me a fking break. Damn right we can blame the consoles. Clearly you have no idea whats involved in gaming development. One just cant squeeze blood from a stone man, its just not going to happen. Oh but, Let me guess its "lazy devs" or a "conspiracy" right? Pardon me, my mistake. SMH. I know, pray for Jesus to float down and sprinkle some "magic-power-dust" on your console, that might give it the necessary hardware boost that doesnt currently exist in the physical realm of reality.

As much as you'd love to think otherwise, these consoles are simply budget conscious, limited in hardware, utilitarian devices that can only do so much. Sorry you've wasted your money on one of these things and that you now finally (hopefully) realize they are not the epitome of the gaming powerhouse. What the hell do you expect for such little money? Its a piddly $300 console, not a PC worth 5-10 times as much. You want hassle free blistering speeds and resolutions then youre just going to have to buy a decent bloody PC, problems solved. And if you cant afford one then you'll just have to suck it up and have to deal with the COMPROMISES that are GUARANTEED in owning a CONSOLE. Its a tough life for you millennials who expect to have it all for nothing. Tough life indeed.

Better yet, instead of having a pouty tantrum about its content or lack there of....dont play it. Besides, PC doesnt want your sulky tears besmirching its ground, you stay over there with the rest of the kids who've been sucked into marketing hype.

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Adrian_v012522d ago

Only one having a tantrum is you dude

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Patriot4Life2523d ago

You can put a Lamborghini emblem on a Honda Civic put that Civic will still perform like a Honda Civic.

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Number_92523d ago

I'd say the upgrades in the PS4 Pro over the vanilla PS4 are a bit more substantial than your analogy is suggesting. If BF1 and Battlefront can run at 60 fps on both the vanilla base consoles whilst looking as good as they do then we have to look elsewhere for the real reason Destiny and its sequel cannot. It rhymes with greedy publisher and lazy developer looking to cash in at the bare minimum.

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MrCrabPuss2523d ago

BS. DIFFERENT ENGINE, 10 times out of 10 means......wait for it........ DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS. You stick with that cognitive dissonance though.
Genius.

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Artemidorus2523d ago

It's quite simple it's them being lazy and not pushing the limits.

They already know people will be quing up for it. Anything that's popular, don't buy it, they cut corners to please the masses

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rainslacker2523d ago

Sadly, graphics quality is much more appreciated than any other thing in gaming. When it comes to marketing, the graphics quality is much more readily apparent than the frame rate, and for the most part, the vast majority of gamers don't even care about frame rate, nor can frame rate really be shown in marketing material in today's outlets.

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Asuka2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

this. it is far easier for Publishers to market "4k" gaming as that term is on everything from bluray players, monitors, and TVs. The majority of gamers and your average consumer doesn't know what a "frame rate" is or how it impacts their viewing experience. But 4k is something they do understand. Without getting too technical how would you market framerates to the average consumer so they could understand, and the answer is you really can't without getting too technical.

More so on an even MORE technical level it isn't even about framerates. Frame Timings/frame pacing is far more apparent, relevant, and important to the overall "smooth" viewing/playing experience. Most gamers, and even pc gamers, do not even consider frame timings but instead focus on "average fps" even tho the average fps isn't indicative of real world performance or overall "smoothness" of your gaming experience.

So i ask again how are you suppose to market that to your everyday consumer. Publisher isn't going to bother when slapping "4k" on the box will sell much better.

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rainslacker2522d ago

It can be marketed as it is now. It's stated in press releases, for those that care. So long as the video looks smooth, the average consumer won't care if it's 30 or 60. The press releases are for those that care, and they will get the message. Until 60 becomes a defacto standard, its unlikely people will begin to start to notice 30fps, and even then they probably won't care that much so long as it runs smoothly.

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MrCrabPuss2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

Its quite simple, its a CONSOLE with LIMITED hardware not being able to push the limits. Sorry kiddo, sad reality.

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Hedstrom2523d ago

The Jaguar cpu, gpu wise theres no problem.

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Storm Shadow NF2523d ago

The original Destiny ran on a PS3 and 360 the pro is almost 15x more powerful than that console. Scorpio is around 20x so want to know why it won't run is because they have modified there crappy engine from the original that was mad for PS3 and 360. So instead of actually doing some work they have given us a Destiny 1.5 experience. What a joke. Destiny 2 is going to be the only shooter not at least at 1080p and 60FPS. I had high hopes when they dumped PS3 and 360 guess I was wishful thinking. Hahahah

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TKCMuzzer2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

I don't think it is as simple as that. When newer gen consoles are created, everything for that version gets updated. If the PS4Pro ran the PS3 version then yes, it could probably hit 60 FPS. The trouble is the devs can not do that, firstly it would have poor image quality which everyone would moan about, it would have poor textures, which everybody would moan about, it would have average lighting, which everyone would moan about and so on.
Devs have a choice, they have to create a game that meets gamers graphical expectations of a current gen game, along with AI and so on. Just as the technology advances so does everyone's expectations.
This will only change when we reach a graphical ceiling were they are that good any extra power will go towards performance. Of course this may never happen as everyone is always chasing the latest resolution bump.
I take a back seat, I know nothing about creating a game, or its engine, that means I have no experience to make a valid judgment on the devs ability. They are experienced devs and unless you can show them how to do it better then I feel you should not point the finger so accusingly.

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Thunder_G0d_Bane2522d ago (Edited 2522d ago )

The pro is not 15 times more powerful than the ps3 as it still cant run open world games at 60fps. Witcher 3 is 30fps, GTA 5 is 30fps and even Skyrim remastered 30fps on the pro. Thats the harsh reality of the Pro, the jaquar CPU is trash. guess what? Ps3 runs gta 5 an skyrim all at 30fps too.

So much for 15 times more powerful lool

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SirBradders2523d ago

To all the dumb people complaining, if you want 30+ frames per second experiences you would already be a PC gamer.

Bungie have clearly stated the CPU is weak, don't you think if pro could hit 60fps they would have included it. You have the OG PS4 and XBONE fans who will be left behind if Pro / Scorpio hit 60fps.

We still don't know what the FPS is on Scorpio but if Bungie / MS allow unlocked frame rate then more for the OG Xbox fans.

I know what im getting it on and the reason is the PS4 is where my mates are at. I would rather Bungie upped all graphical features and used checker board to get to 4k than native on lower settings. That's my opinion as lets face it Scorpio will have more GPU power to have better graphics so any tricks to make it on par with Scorpio is fine with me.

If they don't look the same who cares its only minor differences ill still be having more fun where my mates are at.

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Storm Shadow NF2523d ago

What I'm saying better to have it run 60FPS at 1080 P then pushing a 4k resolution that is barely possible on a PC. How about a choice like most PS PRO GAMES? I think bungie is taking the easy way out IMO. I could care less about resolution as much as I care about FORCING 4 vs 4 on people. Bungie used to be the developer that care about the people now they car about MLG B.S. Why not give the players a huge playlist like every other shooter !!! BTW Destiny 1 and 2 are the only FPS that run in 30FPS now. Pop in BF1 1080 P and 60FPS. Sad situation IMO.

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Next_gen_20152523d ago

It would really suck if scorpio ends up getting held back. Battelfront 2 is going to be 4k/60fps...i dont see why not destiny

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TKCMuzzer2523d ago

I imagine there is a lot more to it than that. I do know that more Ai on screen has quite an effect on the game engine and processes. Battlefront will mainly consist of human players which puts less strain on the game engine, unlike mixing human players and then filling the screen with AI.

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Next_gen_20152523d ago

20 vs 20 servers with amazing graphics at 4K is less demanding than destiny? i think not

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Aenea2522d ago (Edited 2522d ago )

It's not being held back, Scorpio's CPU can't run this game engine at 60fps either...

Yes Battlefront can look better, can have more players playing in the same game but Destiny has more AI going on in the background, more physics, etc., etc.

Comparing games and game engines is silly, it doesn't work like that....

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Next_gen_20152522d ago

"Scorpio's CPU can't run this game engine at 60fps either"

Bungie never stated that. Thats just your opinion. Non of us really know what the scorpio is capable of tbh

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Aenea2522d ago (Edited 2522d ago )

"Bungie never stated that. Thats just your opinion. Non of us really know what the scorpio is capable of tbh"

I know they didn't and they aren't allowed just yet to even acknowledge it, but I would be very, very, very surprised if it could handle it. Scorpio's CPU is only a little bit faster than the Pro's and the reason why it doesn't do 60fps on the Pro is because the CPU can't handle it. The slight increase in speed is not going to magically help Scorpio to do this sorta thing, the engine just uses the CPU too much so not even a 100Tflops GPU would help to get this engine to do 60fps on the CPUs used in Scorpio (or Pro)...

It could tho if they moved these calculations to the GPU, it would mean sacrificing visuals and/or resolution and since they already did not want to do that for PS4, X1 and PS4 Pro it's highly unlikely they will for a mid-gen upgrade meant for the enthusiast gamer, especially since it hasn't even released yet. It would mean a complete overhaul of their physics engine and AI sub-system.

And no, the optimisations in the CPU are not going to help with this since they are meant to speed up DirectX and other related functions which is not what this is about. It might help to gain more CPU cycles for other calculations but it won't certainly be enough...

So even tho it's my opinion when you think logically about it you should come to the same conclusion...

I am disappointed tho they didn't do it for all consoles and then lower resolution, ah well, Destiny 1 played very well even with 30fps...

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timotim2523d ago

Bungie said Pro doesn't have the chops to get it to 60...pretty simple. We know it's not about parity with standard PS4 because lots of Pro modes look to increase frames...at least in SP/campaign, but D2 on Pro won't even do that. Either Bungie is flat out lying and doesnt want to put in the extra work, or Pro simply doesn't have the chops so they must keep it at checkerboard 4k/30FPS. Sure, they could make multiple Pro "modes", but id imagine they will already have their hands full with the many other platforms they will be working on while adding the additional PC version. Creating multiple Pro modes is no different than adding more consoles/platforms to there workload in terms of testing, bug fixing.

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CrimsonWing692523d ago

Because in what has to be the most ridiculous turn of events Sony now made a console weaker than MS's "Pro" system and can't run it at 4k 60 fps. It's that simple and I'm not sure after seeing how consumers reacted to Xbone in the beginning and wanting to play the best console version of a game on the more powerful console why Sony would make an inferior system but hey... there's always the PS5 I guess.

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TKCMuzzer2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

I would rather their most powerful console was a proper generational leap. They didn't want to start a new generation and they are right, there is not a big enough leap between the PS4 and Scorpio to be considered a generational leap.
The Pro forms part of the PS4 eco system and people need to understand that was their goal. If it was as powerful as the Scorpio it gets to close to the line where people would expect Pro only games, this would negatively effect the PlayStation user base.
Only recently people have become obsessed with FPS, why? It's a mine is bigger than yours competition. Xbox One owners are apparently ready for the Scorpio, why? becasue it will offer better games? No, its so they can all go on about how its got the best graphics and this switches between both sides, its technically a pissing competition for fanboys.
Gaming should be about the actual games, the truth is if Destiny 2 was only 30 FPS on all formats no one would care, as long as the game was fun to play, unfortunately modern gamers seem to be missing the point of gaming.

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CrimsonWing692523d ago

I get what you're saying about how these "Pro" consoles are still part of the ecosystem but you also have to understand why they were made. They were to take advantage of frame rate and resolution. The Pro should have been more similar to Scorpio. Have you played a game at 30fps and then played it at 60fps? lower frame rate is noticeable and terrible.

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Nintenzo2523d ago

Because the developers have made it so their game is skewed towards visual porn rather than a more responsive approach towards displayed frames per second.

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mmj2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

Because 4 AMD Jaguar cores are about as powerful as a single Intel or AMD Ryzen core and they have a much lower clock speed to boot. The AMD Jaguar used in consoles is basically 2 quad core mobile processors slapped together. They are aimed mostly at being power efficient and to achieve that they're low performance compared to modern PC processors.

Fitting PS4 Pro and Scorpio with an AMD Ryzen processor (even if only a quad core) would have taken both consoles to a whole new level.

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mmj2523d ago

PS4 and Xbox One's AMD Jaguar CPU examined
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/r...

“In raw processing terms, these four Jaguar cores have slightly less than a quarter the grunt of a Core i5-3570K. It’s the same story on a core-by-core basis. Less than one quarter of the performance.
...
“I just can’t see how developers are going to really ramp up game engine technology with these CPU cores. Next-gen AI, fancy physics, don’t see how it’s possible,” the site adds.

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CP_Company2523d ago

activision is very know for lazy work.there is nothing new with this 2014 game,2014 game? yes,this game called destiny 2 is just dlc,nothing more.can not hit 60fps in 1080p? give me a brake,lazy as.s activision corporate bullshit.they can try sell their lies to noobs,because real gamers knows what can do you those systems and what not.

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Corpser2523d ago

Because the game is CPU intensive and these consoles including Pro have 4 year old tablet CPUs

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2523d ago

cell9892523d ago

Bungies engine is outdated, period

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xPaYDaYx2523d ago

Because console gamers make such a big deal about graphical fidelity so Sony has the idea that 4k with the best textures is the priority, simple.

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Nybz2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

That's seriously unfortunate to the PS4 Pro owners - and kind of a slap to the face no?
Nearly everyone can enjoy a 60fps experience, while a 4k experience is limited to those who physically own a 4k monitor/television, resulting in a limited group of gamers to really get the "full effect" of the game on their PS4 Pro's especially. Seems like an odd focus for a dev to take.

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AKS2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

I have an OLED, but I've noticed just about every Pro game I've purchased recently has had 1080p enhancements as well as a higher resolution setting. Are you sure Bungie isn't doing the same with D2?

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Nybz2521d ago

No idea.

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HeyNowChillax2523d ago

Crap Engine & BS excuses where other developers have no problem in multiplayer at 1080p 60fps - All Battlefields, Any COD, Titanfall 2 and Diablo III to name a few.

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Tzuno2523d ago

because they praise the 4k to much

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sorane2523d ago

Bungie already said it was because of the weak cpu in the Pro. It's pretty easy to see and understand why.

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cellfluid2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

So much excuses. Lol 1st they said it's running @ 30fps because of Ps3 and Xbox 360 with destiny 1 and that's why it isn't doin 60fps.....now destiny 2 which is not on Ps3 and Xbox 360 their excuse is physics and blah blah blah it won't run @ 60fps lololol

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Razuel2523d ago (Edited 2523d ago )

Because it needs 8 teraflops, not sure scorpio will with all it's secret sauce. 60+ fps and 1080p is where the RX480 hardware shines. Do not really get why the Pro is having a hard time supporting 1080p. And those new Sony HDR 1080p screens would be ideal for gaming at 70i and below.

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2523d ago

2523d ago

DefenderOfDoom22523d ago

So ,DESTINY 2 comes out Sept. 2017. Then, they will release 2 small DLC‘s for DESTINY 2 in 2017 -18 and then 1 big one for holiday season 2018 . And then, 6 months later in 2019, BUNGIE will announce DESTINY 3 is coming out on 9th gen. consoles and PC in Sept. 2020. And then, finally, we will be able to play a DESTINY game at 60fps on consoles .

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Tsar4ever012523d ago

The dev director explained everything why Ps4 Pro or the consoles period can't run D2 at 4k/60 starting at 1:09:26-1:10:56, it the interview was suddenly cut, but the devs definitely said that the slow CPU(Jaguar) cores on consoles are the main bottle-neck and the biggest reason.

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2523d ago

mastershredder2523d ago

I know why it won't run at all on mine!

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GreenUp2523d ago

Have fun trying to play competitive at 30fps.

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greywolf392522d ago

Because developers are dont know how. Look at the games like Mgs,Uncharted, Doom,Horizon...

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DefenderOfDoom22522d ago

DOOM 2016 runs at 60fps on consoles . RAGE ran at 60fps on 7th gen. consoles . ID SOFTWARE focuses on smooth gameplay.

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brich2332522d ago (Edited 2522d ago )

All the bungie halos are 30 fps On 360. They are just lazy and don't know how to make a 60fps game.

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MrCrabPuss2522d ago

Console.

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MagicBeanz2522d ago

Dev laziness or an under powered PS4 Pro take your pick, depending on which company your fanboying has you hating more.

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chobit_A5HL3Y2522d ago

because bungie ism't a good enough dev and/or because it's a half-assed sequel lol

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2522d ago

tee_bag2422522d ago

More lameness from this gen of kiddie consoles

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2522d ago

gedden72522d ago

Because of the WEAK CPU

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super_cuddles2522d ago

Because you told me to

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super_cuddles2522d ago

Becayse destiny is the cool aid

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Show all comments (136)

60°

10 Years Later, Bungie STILL Hasn't Improved Warlock Mobility in Destiny 2

Flowercidal|1d 12h ago |Opinion piece|0|

Warlocks in Destiny 2 are great for loads of things. Healing? We got that. Awesome PvE action? Sure! Warlock Mobility? Severely lacking.

An opinion piece about Warlock Mobility in Destiny 2 written by Jordan from The Nerd Stash.

Destiny 2 PC PS4 PS5 Xbox One Xbox Series X thenerdstash.com

Read Full Story >>

thenerdstash.com

80°

A mid-tier Destiny 2 perk is now breaking the game thanks to a new bug

1UP-Words|9d ago |News|0|

A new Destiny 2 Cascade Point bug lets you turn boring weapons into miniguns that can melt through any boss' healthbar.

Destiny 2 PC PS4 PS5 Xbox One Xbox Series X theloadout.com

Read Full Story >>

theloadout.com

140°

Destiny 2 has finally made free (and actually helpful) starter packs after microtransaction scandal

1UP-Words|13d ago |News|1|

After the fiasco around its grim $15 Starter Pack last year, its refreshing to see that Destiny 2 Into The Light will add free loadouts for new players.

Destiny 2 PC PS4 PS5 Xbox One Xbox Series X theloadout.com

Read Full Story >>

theloadout.com

anast13d ago

I already maxed out a free character just to see how far you can go, and it's not very far. They call it free to play, but it's more like a demo, which are free in the first place.

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